Road Haulage Association

Haulage Industry News

Future Driver Recruitment shortage

There has been much discussion in recent months about the impact of the Drivers’ CPC on the availability of drivers from September 2014.

Several observers are of the view that these new training requirements will deter large numbers of drivers – particularly those aged over 60 – and that they will leave the industry rather than go through with the training. Whether that proves to be the case or not, we know that a large proportion of drivers are over 50 and that, as a result we will lose significant numbers of drivers over the next five to ten years, even if they all decide to go through the DCPC training and get the Qualification Card; without one they will not be employable.

I am inclined to think that the Driver CPC, important though it is, is only a part of the problem. Keeping the drivers that we already have, let alone attracting new blood into the industry, is not going to be easy because the job brings quite a few challenges that really need to be tackled. For a start, traffic conditions are frustrating enough for almost all drivers, but our truck drivers have to put up with delays and congestion all day every day. During the day, they have to put up with the difficulties that they face at RDCs and other collection/delivery points, who – far too often – do not treat them with anything remotely like the respect that they deserve, refusing access to toilet facilities, which is illegal, taking their keys and keeping them hanging around for hours on end, even though they arrive within a booked in slot. Then, at the end of the day, they have great difficulty finding somewhere to park that offers decent quality, reasonable value food and facilities. Add to this the fact that the number of people passing the LGV Driving Test and going on to acquire an initial Driver’s Qualification is far short of the likely number that will be going out of the industry, and it quickly becomes clear that any expected driver shortage in a few years’ time will be much more like a driver crisis. Arguably, this could be a good thing, with a real lack of drivers creating a shortage of haulage that can only result in a meaningful rise in haulage rates, although this will be needed to the fund higher wages that will be commanded in a shortage situation.

Inevitably, this will mean that the impact of foreign competition will get worse: remember that limits on cabotage could well disappear during this time period. Having said that, the availability of foreign drivers is nowhere near as significant as it was when the Eastern European States joined the EU some years ago, because their own economies have grown to the extent that the driver’s job is better paid and the attraction to move to “prosperous” UK has greatly declined. The big concern is that the industry will blame any shortage of drivers on the DCPC, when there is a much bigger picture to take into account.

Geoff Dunning

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51 responses to “Future Driver Recruitment shortage

  1. mdrtrainingukltd June 13, 2013 at 11:39 am

    I have noticed a massive increase of quotation requests for driver training from the DWP so maybe the right people are finally taking notice!

  2. gareth dowdell August 7, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    The Dcpc has been an elephant in the room for years now. Some employers are asking their staff to take the training on weekends without pay. So they are not having any weekend rest periods. Older drivers are not interested in taking the course, why bother they tell me. Will I get more pay when qualified? The answer -no. Some other drivers who took their LGV test with the military can’t read, they are obviously not going to take the course. I know of two such experienced drivers. The industry as a whole though should take a look at how it treats and pays its drivers, Class one drivers like myself have had to pay for medicals, LGV training and test fees. ADR courses and now DCPC training and acquiring twenty years experience driving some trucks worth over £100’000 and all for what? To take home a lot less than £300 a week for 45 hours, this is the industries problem and needs solving before the shop shelves start to empty.

    • mdrtrainingukltd August 8, 2013 at 11:03 am

      There does need to be lots of work done to make the driver CPC fit for purpose. Same module 5 times in a row? Buying the card of dodgy training companies? In theory the DCPC is a good idea: to improve the standards in the industry and there is a percentage of drivers who desperately need training. It needs to be focused for example – equivalent 1 day per year on new legislation, health & safety improvements and refreshing current knowledge. In my opinion the 8 hours is all that matters rule is terrible.

      Gareth is right though, plenty of HGV & PCV drivers will hang up their keys and its an ageing workforce with few younger drivers taking their tests.

      • armstrong bob gilnockie August 13, 2013 at 8:52 pm

        I. Thats ok young people taking. There. Test but they. NeeD one on one craft road. Training ? One. WEks training his not ? Will never bé. Enough. 12 months. Ropping and sheeting. I had. To do before I. Got. To. Go for. My class. One near. 40 years. A. Go I. Rest. My. Case. Bob

      • Steve August 14, 2013 at 7:32 am

        Steve June 26, 2013 at 8:46 am Your comment is awaiting moderation.
        Still awating moderation. Now that’s a surprise I wonder why.

      • Sophie-Jane Sherwood August 14, 2013 at 6:34 pm

        20 yrs class 1, Mainly trained by blue chip companies, thus I am usually well up on road leglistaion changes etc
        The DCPC is the breaking point for me, Im self employed so in the real world, with loss wages and paying for the course and all other things to keep my entitlement, it will cost me near £1000 every 5 yrs
        There isnt any other profession that I know that we have to keep paying to keep your job, do it right and employers will tend to keep you employed and busy, mess up and you will find no work

        Yes I agree to the DCPC in certain context, New drivers and existing drivers to maintain their knowledge as in new leglislation and rules and maybe 1st aid, but for 7 hours sat in a class room, that is pathetic, hardly any course should take 7 hrs at all

        Therefore, sometime soon, I will say BYE UK, wont be a good bye either, The UK is scuppered and unless the haulage industry starts to listen and drivers stick together, nothing will change

      • mdrtrainingukltd August 15, 2013 at 9:06 am

        You are right Sophie, self employed/Owner drivers and agency staff do seem to be bearing the brunt of the costs with no backup, although some employees are also being told go go and sort their own out.

        One solution to reduce the costs would be to split the 1 day down into chunks. If you could complete, lets say, 2 hours per session you could easily fit the “35 hours” regulation into the 5 year period. It would have no effect on the workforce as they could complete before/after work….. but hey, I am no wizz-kid in Brussels what do I know!

        There will be a loss of drivers due to the DCPC, I am not too sure it will be in the masses as some are predicting but it will have an effect on the industry.

        One possible benefit to those who choose to complete and stay in business then wages/rates should rise as the demand exceeds the driver pool!

      • Sophie-Jane Sherwood August 15, 2013 at 3:48 pm

        What you are not getting mdrtrainingukltd, is that 35 hours DCPC isnt what is needed, esp for existing drivers, existing drivers see it as a slap in the face
        Rates wont go up, Look at the London tour company, Forget its name, They went to Poland for drivers to do the London tour, Why ?? Caus they couldnt find drivers here, LIARS There are plenty drivers here who applied, but ignored
        The same is for Truckers, DHL for one, a post in Polish for drivers to come over to the UK, When I for one have worked for DHL as an agency driver, and I have never been given the opportunity to work for them full time, But they are happy to have me on agency, Sod them, I think better for myself
        Im fed up with how drivers are treated in the UK, Well fed up with how the hole workforce is treated, but sadly not every will stand up united and shout and scream that enough crap is enough

        Why ?? Caus they are afraid that they will loose their zero hour contract or what ever crap contract they have and be replaced by another foreign worker working for less than min wage, And yes they do, Low wage commission wont do nothing since night out money is taken into account for hours worked, even thou the driver is asleep and away from home

    • armstrong bob gilnockie August 13, 2013 at 7:01 pm

      How right you are back in 1979 we did the same thing ? Then they got there act togather and so reason , thats what his needed again ! We all stick togather again .

    • popeye691 September 9, 2013 at 12:45 pm

      I was trained as a HGV driver in the military and resent your remark that ex military LGV drivers can’t read and are obviously not going to sit the DCPC. I have been a HGV driver for over 20 years and a DCPC trainer for the last 4 years and have trained drivers in small to medium (120 units) sized transport companies, I have found its not the ex military drivers but the HGV drivers that have held HGV licence for several years (10 years plus) they are the ones that claim to know every thing and don’t need anybody to tell them how to do their job and why should they spend their money gaining a qualification they don’t need.my answer was if you don’t want to sit the course please don’t slam the door on the way out and you had better start looking at alternative employment because after Sept 2014 they will be out of a job, and if you didn’t know that in this country HGV drivers are treated worse than a stray dog then the ink on your licence has not dried yet and I have met a few drivers that have reading problems and not one had ever served in the military the days of squaddies only being in the forces because they cant get a job in civvi street because they are to thick are well gone.

      • Steve October 7, 2013 at 12:32 pm

        I see you state you’re a DCPC Trainer so the DCPC will be of advantage to you in your employment. I also see your remarks with regard to Military and Civilian drivers working within the Industry.

        I’m x Military and I can state honestly that my training in the Army with regard to LGV 1 did not prepare me for what was to come. On leaving the Army I worked with many Blue Chip Companies where good drivers were in abundance.

        Having the expertise of the Civilian drivers thrust upon me did me the world of good and I can honestly say, that from what I’ve encountered on the road and within the depots I’ve operated in Military drivers are still lacking what it takes, however I understand their demise.

        Having helped Military drivers working through Agencies revers onto very tight bays with very restricted maneuvering areas and connect up their equipment necessary to complete their job’s it is evident that they lack the skills you state we don’t have.

        I still see some of the Military drivers I’ve helped over the last two years, they are now confident fully operational drivers some are now working full time for the Companies they were working for through their Agencies, but if it were not for the likes of me and the other civilian drivers passing on our knowledge and expertise where would they be today, still struggling I expect because the Forces cannot cover all aspects and operational rolls within the Road Haulage Industry as they stand today.

        It is wrong to indirectly say that we do not know our Job’s, especially when we are prepared to help those who come from the Military as I did or any other field of employment when the help is needed.

        The DCPC may be here to stay because we have a weak Government full of EU Yes Men, that doesn’t mean we have to accept or like it, as an LGV driver yourself you should understand where we come from, how we got there and what we know has been gained through hard training and on the job advice from our fellow civilian LGV drivers.

        Take a step back, the DCPC is your financial security our financial security is our Job’s and our Job’s are at risk because some bureaucrats think we need their advice, let’s see them saying that if their petrol their food their cloths etc etc don’t get to their points of delivery, I bet they’d change the Directive pretty dam quick if that came about and as yet we don’t even know if it wont.

  3. Steve August 15, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Copied and pasted to my WordPress site for all to see. You might stop our comments but you’ll never stop our unity. Call yourself the RHA your having a laugh. Get your fingers out of your backsides and start backing the drivers you say you support.

  4. armstrong bob gilnockie September 16, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    Well lets face ıt Dads get home ? After been away all week . There lads son etc here them say to ? There. Mothers what a basterd of a week ıve had ? If ıts not the customer s gıvıng me crap ıts the polıce or the vosa gang . Then sıt there thınkıng that jobs not for me , ı know my two lads got there hgv ın armed forces but they do any drıvıng now ,asked my oldest son why dont go on the road? He saıd to me ı dont want my Kıds cryıng ın the nıght wheres my Dad. So there ıt hıs the job roamıng now a Days hıs over all the old boys. Have had enough of the bull shıt we have to put up wıth. I lıke many my days days are nearly over has a drıver even though ı got my dcpc. All the best to the old drıver,s ıve known ınthe pasted. Bob gılnockıe armstrong

  5. Steve October 4, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    The Drivers CPC is a plague upon the already over burdened Road Haulage Industry, many of us who have been working within the industry for many years would like to know why we have not been consulted over this issue, and secondly why the RHA the Unions and all the other Road Haulage Industries bodies have failed to consulted us or even condemned this EU Legislation as yet another unnecessary financial burden for our employers to face and the many thousands of self employed / employed drivers working within the industry who are having to lose pay and take time off work to go through the DCPC process.

    Feedback on the DCPC has been coming in thick and fast, it’s becoming quite evident that the DCPC serves no purpose what so ever for the professional drivers who have been working within the industry for many years. Drivers have reported doing the same modules again and again to acquire their 35 hour training, they were told by DCPC Training Staff that doing the same modules again and again was ok because it all counts towards their 35 hour qualification period? so ask yourselves, just what purpose / advantage is this training giving professional drivers who have been working in the industry for years and years NOTHING.

    It was also reported that one Trainer was not aware what a 5th Wheel was, well that gives us all confidence to know that those who are legally obliged to train us don’t know what their talking about. It has also been reported that information with regards to the Regulations Drivers Hours etc etc has also been compromised or communicated wrongly so how can the Government justify the financial outlay of our employers and ourselves on such an abysmal ill thought out ill planed farcical program that is supposed to improve our road safety.

    Road safety can only be improved by employing good drivers who follow the regulations, carry out their daily checks pre and post and on road etc etc and secure their loads as and when required in accordance with the Regulations or at their own discretion. Drivers who rope and sheet, drive tankers fridges etc etc, all have different things to do and check on a daily basis, the DCPC is not covering specific tasks relating to an individual drivers employment characteristics therefore it can only fail in it’s purpose.

    We don’t need telling how to do our jobs, we don’t need further financial loss on top of eye sight / medicals / ADR / HIAB / Fork Lift tests and certificates the Red Rape, what we need is to be left alone to get on with our jobs, jobs some of us have been doing for over 40 years+.

    The road haulage industry will not become any safer through the DCPC, the safety comes down to each individual driver at the end of the day, the drivers ability to do his job professionally, to drive with caution and consideration, to secure his load to rectify his problems and to tell his employer what is in his opinion safe and what is in his opinion is unsafe to carry by road, load restraints being adequate or not as supplied by the employer.

    The DCPC needs trashing it’s a total waste of time and money for all. Money would be better spent improving initial LGV Driver training, I’ve been there seen it done it and the standards that are currently being used are basic, when I was teaching LGV 1 I was told to stop telling my students more than the basic driving skills, I wrongly assumed my employers wanted the drivers we were training for LGV 1 to be safe on the road, NO they just wanted their money and to get them through the system as fast as possible so they could get onto the next mug who was going to pay for low tech driver training, you might as well just say point it over there mate and it will follow.

    This is where DCPC money would be better spent and where the actual benefits of a DCPC within the first five years of a drivers career would be beneficial. after the initial five year period forget it because the skills and lessons learned far outweigh what any DCPC can teach you as a PRO.

    If the DCPC is to continue, then I want to see our Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer along with our Welfare State MP doing tests to to prove to us that they can do their jobs to because at the moment their all making a right pigs arse of it.

    Lorry drivers are paid by private funding from money earned through their Road Haulage Activity, MPs are paid by me and the many other millions of British Taxpayers therefore I think if anyone needs checking its Cameron Smith and Osborne.

    • Laurence Kiely August 26, 2014 at 1:42 am

      Last paragraph says it all. Spot on.

  6. popeye691 October 4, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    everyone is blaming this government for the DCPC, the DCPC was imposed on us by the EU and the government at that time was a Labour government, and as I understand things the Labour party are supposed to be the party of the common working man and supported by the union movement, so where were the unions when this legislation was being forced on us by the EU they were rubbing there hands together at the prospect of making even more money by running courses not to benefit HGV drivers but to line their own pockets not one union leader has stood up and said the DCPC is a load of rubbish they, support it and if they support it so does the Labour party after all its the unions that rule the labour party

    • Steve October 7, 2013 at 12:04 pm

      Quite correct popeye691. It was a Labour Government and the DCPC was implemented by the EU, unfortunately we have Governments that are afraid to say NO along with our so called Unions etc who aren’t prepared to stand up for us or even consider consulting us over these issues that constantly plague our Industry and cost us money.

      Most Drivers feel that the DCPC is a good idea for new entries into the Road Haulage Industry and should be implemented over a ten year period, however those of us who have worked in the Industry for over ten years including new drivers who have completed their ten year period feel we know our Job;’s how to do them and have come across and gone through so many different situations on the road and at delivery points that warrant us an exemption from the DCPC EU Directive.

      You can’t teach a Duck to Suck Egg’s but you can teach an LGV Driver who has been in the Job for 30 years or more the Job he already knows and undertakes safely everyday of his life, it’s pathetic to think that some Muppet in the EU who has probably never driven or worked in our Industry should think the DCPC is a safety enhancer, at the end of the day safety comes down to each respective driver the way he loads his vehicle secures his load and his driving attitude, it has nothing to do with the DCPC training what so ever.

      Even if you teach a driver how to do this how to do that should he not follow the principals given after sitting 35 hours on a DCPC he will still be a risk on the road, we all know that safety is a major concern so why doesn’t the Government and the DVLA implement better training at the point of entry.

      I taught LGV 1 and I was instructed NOT to tell the drivers anything about Techo law the Regulations the WTD etc, all I was required to do was get them driving forwards and backwards, that to me was not good enough so I terminated my employment with the company. New drivers are passing their tests with little if any knowledge about the Road Transport Regulations Tacho Laws and the Working Time Directive these issues should be covered in full at point of entry along with the principal safety aspects of driving and LGV.

      Better training at the point of entry will enhance road safety within the Road Haulage Industry, the DCPC is doing and will do nothing to improve either.

  7. hiabman63 October 9, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    So the Dcpc was introduced because non of us HGV drivers had a clue what we were doing before it was enforced as a law…health and safety claptrap at its worst AND another stealth task if you ask me….perhaps they should talk to the Turkish arsehole stopped on the hard shoulder of the M6 close to J9 who decided to just pull out from a standing start onto the main carriageway as I was approaching at the mandatory 50mph rather than get up to speed on the hard shoulder before entering the carriageway as we who must possess the CPC would do….that’s called common sense where I’m concerned but he was just brain dead …he gave ME the finger when I gave him the horn and lights!

  8. Alex November 4, 2013 at 11:05 pm

    Increase pay considerably as at the present time it is appalling.
    One mistake on a motorway and others die plus no drivers = no economy
    We should be on 50k a year minimum.
    And if you think hard that is not unreasonable.
    Airline pilots get that and more and have far less chance of killing others and the aircraft does most of their job for them
    Secondly respect.
    The country and authorities need to STOP persecuting us.
    Look after us.
    Without us there is nothing.
    We sleep eat and shit in laybys and its a disgrace.
    I could rant forever but if it doesn’t all change no new drivers will come along.
    I’m 35 and do you know how many of my peers from school became drivers.
    NONE.
    How many if my age do I know.
    NONE.
    Would I recommend this job to anyone.
    NO WAY.
    I hope it collapses and teaches this sick class based society in the UK a lesson.

    KOT

    • Pete January 16, 2014 at 6:54 am

      Totally agree with you mate. I’m 15 years older than you, took my test in 1986 and I’m earning 50p an hour LESS today than I did then! All these people complaining about pay freezes for a year or two, they should try it for 28 years! The problem is, over the years, rises in the price of diesel and increased competition, all these costs have been passed onto the driver. If we had been treated fairly and these costs had been spread, then, with inflation etc, we should be on a minimum of £20 an hour today.

    • Alex August 26, 2014 at 11:02 am

      Well said totally agree with all you said what we need is a total strike, but unfortunately there is always who will work for low wages. The big companys have all new wagons but still wont pay a decent wage god help us.

  9. Steve November 5, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    Last week 28th Oct – 3rd Nov 5 serious road accidents occurred concerning LGV Class 1s along the M5, M4 and M25 corridors, three of the drivers are now deceased RIP. If the DCPC is so good for our road safety surly this is proof that it’s not doing its job.

    Driver training improves road safety, it’s about time those who commend this DCPC training CRAP were honest enough to stand up and say OK we got this wrong, lets look at Driver Training and drop the DCPC for the good and benefit of all. The only people the DCPC benefits are those who take out hard earned money at the end of our shift. FACT.

  10. Ronnie January 21, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    If drivers stuck together we would be on a decent wage but the problem is they don`t.

  11. Paul January 22, 2014 at 8:24 am

    I agree entirely what Steve and others have said the DCPC is a complete waste of a HGV Drivers time and Money!..Its got nothing to do with Road safety or anything Driver related except to line someones pocket!..It says it All when you can do the same Mode each time..I like a lot of the Drivers who have commented I have been driving HGV Class 1 since 1984..But when Sept 2014 comes along I am gone!…Already started to look for a nice easy Van driving job with a nice start time..8am and finish at 5 or 6pm…8 quid an hour!…I only get 9.50 an hour driving Class 1!..Its a no brainer for me!…

    • Ronnie January 22, 2014 at 10:51 pm

      I think Paul you would probably be better off going self employed (Ltd Company) and work through an agency.
      I like Paul got my licence in 1984 and I don`t agree with the DCPC but if you go self employed you get an higher rate of pay. (I`m on £12.25 ph week days £13.50 Sat & £14.50 sun at the moment)
      I`m quite happy doing 3 or 4 days per week and earning £450-£600 +

      • Sophie-Jane Sherwood January 22, 2014 at 11:00 pm

        Only problem with being Self employed, and thru an agency, you can be seem in the Inland revenue eyes as dodging tax
        Also, seasonal trends, January being a slack month, sometimes thru to late Feb / early March

        Its swings and roundabouts, but most drivers want full time positions, unless they are full time, they will find it increasingly difficult to get a Mortgage and loans, and with Zero hour contracts flying around (Should be ILLEGAL) getting a proper contract is getting almost impossible

  12. Sophie-Jane Sherwood January 22, 2014 at 10:53 pm

    I have previously posted on here, I am now in Canada and I do feel that NEW Entrants do need further training
    Im a seasoned driver of 20yrs on UK Class 1, and feel that these should be included for every new LGV Driver
    The Air brake test, a Theory and a practical test, This to understand the theory and principles of using their brakes, and how to check them, Even Auto slack adjusters, How many drivers know exactly know how to ensure that their brakes are adjusted properly
    Its sad to know that that driver who is slamming his brakes on, has probably got the best adjusted brakes than the driver who carefully applies his brakes
    Most big companies will warn a driver for harsh braking, But a full service application with a full air system, is just doing that, ensuring that the brakes are adjusted properly on Auto slacks

    Also, I have become more aware with the regulations here as in, The driver walk around check/s, Drivers to ensure that nothing is amiss, nothing is loose and nothing is leaking
    This way, the driver is more responsible for their Truck and Trailer, they are more aware of procedures and more aware that a loose component that shouldn’t be loose, should be repaired

    These 2 items for new drivers would make the road safer than what the DCPC is at present

    Those should be implemented in new drivers and new regs should be made to ensure that these are made mandatory

    For new drivers and existing drivers the following should also be implemented

    1st Aid at the road side
    Rules and Regulations
    Economical driving
    Load security (For the industry the driver is employed or wish to be employed in(

    YES I am against the DCPC, ONLY in its current context

    Im for improvement within the haulage industry, but only if its for the betterment of the trucker, Having a trucker suck eggs, that is wrong
    Having these courses and their isnt really any qualifications, thats wrong, the driver needs to learn and understand these courses, and must be able to prove they have understood and gained a qualification in doing so

    However, When Truckers wages have not gone up in line with inflation and in real terms has gone right down as in some places within the UK and I believe Europe, Gone as low as Min wage and that is including at least 4 to 5 nights away from home a week!

    Who in their right mind would come into the trucking industry as it stands now?
    I know I am steering my lad away from it, unless he wishes to come to Canada and do Long haul, I wont recommend it otherwise

    You want professional truckers, The thing is, Truckers are not seen as professional, esp in their wage packet, the only people who see truckers as being professionals are the likes of Police, Vosa and the courts
    Thats why truckers are hitting back, They have to prove themselves are not to blame in RTA’s etc, by fitting Dash cams, Because, without them, the Police believe the other motorist/s.

    Its about time that the likes of RHA etc LISTEN to the driver, We’ve had enough, I had enough that I left, and I vow never to return back to UK trucking, Not to cras wages, unfit Motorway service stations, Piss smell laybys, Why would I return ? esp when over here, Im treated with a lot more respect than I ever got in the UK, and like a lot of my friends who have done the same and also considering doing similar
    WE,VE HAD ENOUGH and ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

    SORT THIS CRAP OUT BEFORE ITS TOO LATE

    • Ronnie January 22, 2014 at 11:07 pm

      Why are you seen as dodging tax because you`re self employed ?
      I’ve been self employed since 2007 and haven`t had any problems with the taxman.
      You won’t have any problems if you form a legitimate company and have a legitimate accountant.
      I personally can`t understand why everyone doesn’t go self employed and I wouldn’t have it any other way

      • Sophie-Jane Sherwood January 23, 2014 at 12:58 am

        I rather not comment on a open page re the tax implications on S/E Ltd or Umbrella, there is enough info about that out side here

      • Ronnie January 23, 2014 at 9:46 am

        The only info about seems to come from PAYE drivers who are for some reason scared of going self employed or they believe it is too difficult.
        But if you have further evidence then you need to let everyone know.
        are you saying that every self employed driver is dodging tax ?
        Because that`s what it seems you’re trying to say

      • Sophie-Jane Sherwood January 23, 2014 at 3:50 pm

        This isnt really the place to put this, but ok you asked for it

        Have you heard about IR35 I think its called, Umbrella companies are being cracked down on, and also if you are seen operating a company which You are providing a service, but you are not providing the tools, you can be seen as tax dodging and can face massive fines and also back taxes
        Because, IR35 see’s that you are really JUST an EMPLOYEE, Not Self Employed or Ltd, They are just ways for you to pay less tax and agencies to avoid the AWR Agency worker regulations

        And anyone who works that way, are helping agencies get away with it, However, I know why they have to do it, because if they dont, you wont get work, even thou agencies will be saying well he/she was working as a Ltd company or Self employed etc,

        Go check it out

      • Ronnie January 23, 2014 at 4:42 pm

        You are talking about umbrella companies not Ltd companies.
        Do you think that legitimate accountants would touch Ltd companies if they were at risk ?
        I don`t think so

    • Ronnie January 22, 2014 at 11:11 pm

      Why are you seen as dodging tax because you`re self employed ?
      I’ve been self employed since 2007 and haven`t had any problems with the taxman.
      You won’t have any problems if you form a legitimate company and have a legitimate accountant.
      I personally can`t understand why everyone doesn’t go self employed.
      Regarding the seasonal work…Just put some money to one side for the lean times

    • VIC January 23, 2014 at 3:59 pm

      there is a employment wanted site on facebook (ex services) and the amount of people wanting information on hi-tech jobs who state as an after thought they have a HGV licence and if push comes to shove they can always get a job as a lorry driver, and I suspect that’s where most of the problems stem from.
      lorry driving in this country is seen as a job you do in-between real jobs its the work you do as a job of last resort and while we have transport companies who are willing to take these people on because they will work for minimum wage and will work for as many hours as possible because they think its cool to drive a big truck and after all its only a temp job till a proper one comes along the RHA are not interested in drivers they are only interested in the transport companies I have seen letters from the RHA to a transport company explaining how to make a cut in pay and allowances look like a pay rise and how to run a “secret” ballot on alterations to terms of employment,
      so after 20 odd years as HGV driver working in the UK and Europe working with companies who’s fleets range from a couple rigid,s up to over a hundred artic,s as a company driver or as an agency driver, getting treated like a brain dead idiot by the boss’s and something nasty you have stuck to the sole of your boots by the general public and a necessary evil when you get to your delivery/collection point (don’t you just love supermarket RDC’s) I’m off looking for a job that starts at 11 finishes at 12 with an hour for lunch and pays 40 grand a year and a company car.
      Oh DCPC yes I do agree with it, as a DCPC trainer it is amazing how many of the old and bold long in the tooth professional lorry drivers “fail” the 20 question test I used to give them at the start of the training day and yes I have packed that in as well because of the abuse from the so called professional lorry drivers

      • Paul delve January 23, 2014 at 6:01 pm

        Right Vic I was quite enjoying your post up until the 20 questions!..Please explain exactly what these questions are as they must be bloody hard if “Long term” Bold and Long in the tooth Professional drivers cannot answer them!

      • VIC January 23, 2014 at 6:53 pm

        hi Paul that’s the point they weren’t hard questions they were 20 basic questions about Drivers Hours, WTD, etc. , to give you an idea , one driver claimed “grandfather rights ” over rest breaks, he preferred the old 3×15 min breaks because it fitted better into his daily routine he even went as far as to show us his tacho charts to prove he was still taking 3×15 min breaks therefore proving he was right and we were wrong,
        The reason I set the test was some of the companies who were paying for the training wanted to see what they were getting for their money so we had a short test at the start of the day and another at the end of the day just to see if there was any improvement in results.
        I never claimed to teach drivers anything just remind them of regulations that they may not use every day

    • Kenny Williams July 22, 2014 at 3:24 pm

      sweet rant here here well said sir.

  13. Paul delve January 24, 2014 at 7:57 am

    Hi Vic well now you have explained I completely understand where you are coming from!…I am no expert but try my best to keep up with regulations even though Vosa do not inform us and we have to find out by word of mouth mostly!..Some HGV drivers will always think their way is right but the Majority will adapt!…I object to the DCPC as it is in most part a “Money Making Excersise”..As you have said previously there is little or possibly No benefit to Drivers taking this DCPC..No Incentive ie..Higher wages less hours etc!.So as I said in my first post I will be hanging my keys up in September this year!..The job is not worth it anymore by this I mean very little pay with all the responsibility that goes with driving HGV”S…!…Plus the Threat of fines for minor infringements etc..I haven”t taken a single Mode and know quite a few who are just waiting to see what happens come Sept 2014!…Its a shame really as I used to really enjoy the job until Government “s discovered they could use drivers as a Cash cow!..With Drivers just accepting it!

    • VIC January 24, 2014 at 1:39 pm

      Hi Paul I am by no means a cheer leader for the government, but when we the UK signed the last big EU agreement we agreed to adopt all transport regulations churned out by the EU.
      One of those regulations is Directive 2003/59/EC in a nutshell the drivers CPC, regardless of what the drivers or the boss’s say we are stuck with it the only way it could be scraped would be for the UK to leave the EU (and that’s another discussion) it was the EU that set out who had to take it when it had to be taken and the cost, fines etc .
      The last time I spoke to VOSA about the DCPC they were looking forward to Sept 2014 any driver they stop that does not have a Drivers CPC card will be parked up and prosecuted and that will include any and all EU regulated drivers and drivers will not be able to use the excuse of ” I didn’t know that because nobody told me” because its been around for nearly 5 years, and the drivers waiting to see what happens should be careful they are the ones VOSA will be looking for, there could also be some form of come back for their employers as well, if they knowingly allow drivers to drive their trucks without a DCPC card could affect their ability to hold an O licence, what can drivers do ….we are stuck with the DCPC, like it or lump it, its been here nearly 5 years now so we either go with it or pack it in and go stack shelves for ASDA and most probably get paid more for doing it

      • Paul delve January 25, 2014 at 7:06 am

        That last sentence of yours is exactly what I and many others intend to do!..And The sentence about VOSA basically Rubbing their hands together eagerly waiting to “NIck Drivers” speaks volumes about the real reason VOSA want the DCPC…CASH!….So Like I said earlier I also eagerly await Sept 2014.!.As I will be gone along with a lot of others and will be able to watch from the sidelines another fine mess engineered by some Pen pusher in Brussels who has never even ridden in a HGV let alone Driven one!….Its been a good discussion Vic I hope it all goes Pear shaped for the Government on this one at least…:)

  14. Andy May 22, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    After 25 years driving I’ve just endured many hours with some ex partly experienced driver,trying to teach me how to do my job,this is the most tedious pointless crap I have ever had to .I earn fair wage but many don’t and resources should be put into getting rid of the agencies that are price fixing driver rates between firms and the profits returned to driver wages.Then perhaps ,after working long unsociable hours,treated like a lump of poo everywhere you go,being the only one at fault when something goes wrong,total lack of respect by other road users,being interrogated by graduates that no everything about nothing at the end of the shift,sleeper cabs with no headroom,double manning night outs(disgusting in something as small as truck cab),MSAs etc etc then perhaps concentrating on driving would be a little easier and a bit safer!

  15. Kenny Williams July 8, 2014 at 10:07 pm

    Trained over five thousand drivers…. FACT..60% of them will not be driving when it kicks in. I personally think 35 hrs is way too long, I can train drivers in two lessons WTD/Tachos+safe loading followed by pre checks/heath and safety thats all you need the rest is bullshit.
    Whats going to keep me legal and safe simples eeek
    Who would like to spend close to three grand getting a license then around £400 for initial dcpc only to be payed as much as a forklift driver? Then struggle to get work with no experience, then when you get a job driving go to work in the morning not knowing if your going to do a eight ten or maybe a 15 hour shift. every day. I can`t think of any other job in the country that does that. “oh” and lets not forget Vosa who are self financed now and can fine you on the spot upto £5000 take your license away and lose your livelihood all in a day. I wonder why the young aren`t considering it? .

  16. trevor scott johns July 21, 2014 at 9:58 am

    when i started in this career over 35 years ago the flatbed lorry was stil the most common type of goods vehicle to be seen on the british highway. forklifts and the like were still to make the impact on the industry so lot’s of loads were still hand balled on and off so ropes sheets and chains nets were the the order of the day. ‘if you were lucky you were shown by those older more seasoned drivers how to do this ‘also lorries had min bhp e.g 16 ton 120-135hp 24 ton 135-170hp-32 ton 150-220hp couple these facts along with min axle weights e.g 5 ton 10 cwt front 10 ton 10 cwt rear axle loadings and was very easy to overload the lorries of the day add the fact that braking on these vehicles was at best ‘ok then the constant mesh/two speed axles drive lines and the terrain drivers had to deal ‘with no by passes ‘hills yet to be overcome ‘you had to understand the job and the tools you were given to complete the job were the map book and your brain and respect for the motor. in the last 30 years the changes in this industry are in my opinion ‘and only my opinion a bloody piss take sure progress should be the order of the day ‘but skills still should prevail curtain siders ‘great idea speeds up the job ‘but how many drivers strap inside the trailer or have been trained to do this ‘sleeper cabs ok for emergencies but living like this 4-5 nights a wk and fighting everyday to find somewhere to park up its just not on. ‘then the image of the driver’or some of these so called drivers won’t entertain a manual gearbox the transport staff are just untrained buffers to take the shit when vosa decide to call ‘there are more large rogue operaters out there now breaking the law than there ever was ‘it’s just the bigger the company the more they get away with and these driver trainers who put themselves forward to teach others….well yes there are some good guys out there trying to change the industry but theres also a few no nothing lazy toerags claiming to know more than most ‘with no more than a nice clean shirt and tie and a smile yes i’ve collected a few bad mistakes along the way ‘done things i ain’t proud of ‘but i and others who’ve been in this game man and boy and who haven’t done something else apart from being a driver know where the problems lay but until drivers and the haulage and distribution companies stop subsidizing this bloody economy and change the proper rate for the job then its the same old story.

    • Kenny Williams July 22, 2014 at 1:04 pm

      Totally agree on everything you say trevor, cut my teeth on roping and sheeting coil and steel in all weathers with no gantry !! all for £6.50 an hour.

  17. Alex McDonald August 16, 2014 at 6:15 pm

    All L.G.V.1 DRIVERS SHOULD BE ON £40K PER ANNUM

  18. Nigel August 21, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    I think I can see this country grind down to a halt come the 9th September.

    I for one will be giving up my HGV license and going back into mechanics and being only 33 with a clean license since 99, ( ex forces ) I still have plenty of driving time but I’m simply not interested one little bit. Having not long completed an assessment for Tesco ( Lichfield ) failed on the pratical for being told I drive to fast, but fully clued up on the EU laws and DSA latest tests for HGV drivers I would say its a shame a driver like myself and others who are just not intrested in driving no more.

    Even if the money was at £1k per day I still wouldn’t drive, It just isn’t worth it no more with the daily stress and strains on our lifes, physically and mentally.

    I cant believe farmers also have to take this ridiculous Crap. The government surely know on how to screw over its own.

    If the UKIP do come into power and we leave the EU i sure as hell hope that we can get rid of this Dcpc crap and revert back to the old ways before we decided to join the EU “Merry Go Round”

    I hope this crap hole of a country grinds to a halt and causes riots as that’s what this country needs to remind the government that its the people of this country who should be calling the votes not them clowns in power but still that wont happen with the sheeple of this country.

    • Kenny Williams August 26, 2014 at 4:05 pm

      Bro, We had the fuel strikes that almost brought the country to it`s knees, a few more days and it would have been a victory. However, money talks, and those who ran the campaign suddenly backed down hmmm, more and more small haulage contractor firms forced to hit the wall with yearly increase after increase. The large companies swooped in and under cut the contracts ( so much for fair trade?) like vultures they have eaten up the market.
      I told the RTITB whilst on the “master driver” course that at least 60% of the 4000 drivers i have trained will not be driving come 9th sept. They did not believe me… really? prats have not got a clue. I can`t be arsed any more with driving wagons…long hours treated like crap, payed crap, and vosa on the sniff to take your license. Even training drivers is crap, because i`m fed up of talking bollocks about EU regs and legislation bollocks. Everyone STOP DRIVING and go and work on a forklift truck or something? I am, because i`ve got the bollocks to do it STOP BEING SCARED OF THESE PRATS on another note nigel… visit our site veterans for peace uk.

      Peace Bro

      kenny

    • VIC August 28, 2014 at 1:57 pm

      interesting comments question if you hate this country so much why not leave it and go to one outside Europe, you seem very keen to get people rioting in this country have you got some connection to Syria and IS. I ask because that’s what they are demanding we riot to get rid of our corrupt government and install a Muslim/sharia system of government at least when you have them in charge you wont have to listen to the EU

      • Nigel August 31, 2014 at 12:43 am

        If I didnt have kids then I would of left this country in a heart beat. Yes im english born and bred, Ex serviceman, and can safely say england is the arse end of the EU having travelled all over the EU.

        No i dont have any connections to the Syria and IS clowns.

        This country needs a riot and its long overdue. The current government does need to bereplaced but regardless of which government is in things need drastically changing.

  19. Paul August 26, 2014 at 10:47 am

    Thank god that Sept 9th is almost upon us!..I for one will not be driving an HGV after this date as I Have done not one single mode of this so called Qualification!…The Industry has left it to late to make representations to the Government to abandon this complete and utter waste of Drivers hard earned money!…I hope the Industry grinds to a Halt like the previous poster has stated!..The DVSA haven”t a Clue how many HGV drivers have the card but are eagerly awaiting said date so they can enforce fines on any driver found not to have one!….I know plenty of drivers my own age early fifties who do not have one and have no intention of getting one!….and are quite prepared to wait and see what the powers that be shall do about the situation!..and No we will not be driving so that DVSA can rub their greedy hands together!

    • dave August 28, 2014 at 1:20 pm

      The only way forward for any driver is to be self employed. I have done it for 9 years now. Yes there are quite times Jan to march. But you will make your money the rest of the year. And stop the transport company’s dictating your wage. They need you more than you need them. They won’t leave there goods on the floor for long. Class 1 don’t drive for less than 12 to 13 quid an hour. Class 2/ 10 quid . Get some balls people.

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